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She is trying to compare deductive
and inductive instruction.

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But one thing you have to pay attention to here
is that the way she finds inductive instruction

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which is what we're discussing right now

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and she chooses one particular
instantiation of that definition, right?

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On the continuum, she chooses one

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where the students do not search
for rules or underlying pattern.

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Neither the teacher nor the
learner stated grammatical rules.

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So we have a very specific
definition of induction here.

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The outcome of the study by the way is that
the deductive approach is better in the sense

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of the measurements that she used.

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But the question is what
exactly did she compare, right?

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And my position here is that this is
not the best definition of induction.

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I would actually-- oh, I'm sorry.

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I'm going to the opposite direction.

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I would argue that number 2
is probably the best option.

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Again, keeping in mind that it comprises
all the other definitions below it

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but the moment you get to that point of
metalinguistic awareness at some point

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which is not what was reflected in that--

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that study we just looked at
in terms of the comparison.

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And the reason is because
you need the guidance there.

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It's not only induction per se.

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The confusion sometimes is induction.

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It's just you look at data and
somehow you figure out the pattern.

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You can do that.

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I mean there's no reason to say
that there's not some benefit

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from engaging students, sometimes
as you have said.

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In some cases, you just engage the
students in looking for patterns

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without giving them any other guidance
and that's fine, you can do that.

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But at some point you can--
you can actually intervene

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and have that metalinguistic awareness.